記 PayPal「疑似風控」, Apple Support, Paypal 客服互相踢皮球.

[yongfrank]

背景: 中行長城跨境通 綁定 PayPal 成功, 嘗試綁定 iTunes store 失敗. 出現: "Sorry, we weren’t able to set up preapproved payments at this time".

• 成功支付了三筆, 1USD, 0.99USD, 18HKD, PayPal 均收到扣款成功通知. 卡内凍結美金.
• 重新綁定星巴克失敗
• 綁定 play store 成功, 支付成功
• 綁定 Microsoft store 失敗

Round one

聯係 PayPal

ME:
我的賬號無法綁定 iTunes store

Paypal:
我注意到您的賬戶有一筆 25 USD 的重複付款, 但都被取消了. 我已經幫您解決這個問題了. 請您重新綁定試試.

ME:
重新綁定出現選卡界面, 然後又失敗了. "Sorry, we weren’t able to set up preapproved payments at this time"

Paypal:
我們内部的安全部門已經檢查了每一筆交易, 都是安全的. 您聯係一下商家, 看看哪出了問題.

聯係 Apple Support

ME:
我的賬號無法綁定 PayPal, 我聯係過他們了, 他們讓我聯係商戶.

(要了一波信息)

Apple:
你的卡是借記卡還是信用卡, 我查了查好像要信用卡才行. (心想: 放 x, 分明是風控了)

ME:
借記卡

Apple:
那我問一下高級顧問. (几分鐘過去了). 高級顧問跟我説你再去聯係 PayPal. (我火了)

ME:
怎麽回事, PayPal 讓我聯係 apple, apple 讓我聯係 PayPal.

Apple:
親親, 實在不好意思.如果他再讓你問我們, 不用擔心, 我們將為您轉接高級顧問.

Round two

聯係 PayPal

ME: Apple 讓我聯係你們.

Paypal:
我看到一筆 25 USD 的重複付款 blabla.

ME:
這是我把 PayPal 添加為星巴克的付款方式時不小心按到的, 所以我取消了.

Paypal:
嗯嗯, 我們已經嘗試解決了. 請您再試一下, 支付一下. 如果還是不行, 建議您再去聯係商戶呢.
(Okay, I have attempted to resolve this issue for you. Can you try this transaction again while I have you on the chat so I can make sure everything works for you? Please try making the payment to Apple iTunes now. However, if you need to set up billing agreement please contact the merchant ask to contact us to check and assist further.")

ME:
不行, 我綁都幫不上怎麽支付???

聯係 Apple Support

(好像是轉接了個高級客服, 打字速度都變快了)

Apple:
感謝聯係 PayPal, 能給我一點時間再去檢查一下嗎?

Apple:
你在聯係 PayPal 后有重新試過嗎? 你要不切 4G 試試.

ME:
不行.

(漫長的等待)

ME:
剛剛為了檢查是否可用, 我又™用安卓手機到 play store 買軟件了, 成功了. 為什麽 app store 就不行?

Apple:
感謝等待. 我又檢查了一下, 感覺這還是 PayPal 的問題. 既然你已經聯係過他們, 可能需要一點時間更新呢. 建議您等一會再嘗試, 如果還沒有解決, 你再去聯係 PayPal, 因為這個問題是 PayPal 那裏引起的呢.
(As you have already cotacted them, it might take a few hours for details to update. I request you to try updating the details after sometime and then attempt to make a purchase. If the issue is still not resolved, you need to contact PayPal again as the error is being generated from their end.)

ME:
那我想知道為什麽在 play store 行, app store 就不行?

Apple:
請您理解我并沒有在您的賬戶中發現什麽能阻止您綁定 PayPal 的問題
(Please know that there are no issues with your Apple Media account which could prevent you from adding your PayPal account.)

Apple: 您需要再次聯係 PayPal 看看問題出在哪了.
(You need to contact the PayPal support team to know why the error is appearing while you are trying to add it.)

ME:
(徹底火了)我™聯係 apple PayPal 几千次了. 你倆責任推卸來推卸去的, 太可笑了吧.

Apple:
親親, 為您帶來了不便, 十分抱歉呢. 請您理解 PayPal 才是這個 case 中製造問題的一方.
(I do apoloogize for the inconvenience this has caused to you.Please know that PayPal is the right resource in this case as the error is being generated from their end. )

Round three

(美國夜已深了, 本來想去 PayPal 看聊天記錄的, 結果整個聊天都沒了, 聯係客服的入口也沒了, 晚上再説吧)

Round three

(這次死盯牢PayPal客服, 説什麽也不讓他踢皮球了.)

ME:
你解決不了就給我轉高級客服!

Paypal:
您再試試, 不行我給您轉高級客服.

(接入高級客服, 一頓臭駡)

ME: 你跟apple 兩個真是好兄弟, 踢皮球挺厲害.

Paypal: 不好意思給您帶來了糟糕的體驗. (反手就給我複製粘貼了一段教程)

ME: 我想請問您到底是不是高級客服? 還是只是換了個人給我複製粘貼?

Paypal: 建議您注冊一個新賬號. (經本人測試, 無用. 但是看maying的教程, 他們通過重新注冊並聯係客服的方式成功綁定.)

ME: 新賬戶也不行, 而且把新賬戶銷號了卡綁不回老賬戶了.

Paypal: sorry blabla(以下省略)

ME: (開始與PayPal談人生談理想)

Please solve the problem with efficiency. I'd appreciate it if you don't just make a token gesture.

So I should ask Apple, Microsoft, Google, Starbucks for help?

(訴諸不好的體驗)

And they will tell me You need to contact the PayPal support team to know why the error is appearing while you are trying to add it. I do apologize for the inconvenience this has caused you. Please know that PayPal is the right resource in this case as the error is being generated from their end. Please know that there are no issues with your Apple Media / Google / Starbucks / Microsoft account which could prevent you from adding your PayPal account."

If I can't use it on apple, I will contact apple. Actually I did. Here is what they told me. But NOW I can't use it on muti-platform. So next time before making a purchase, I will contact each one.

(開始與PayPal談企業文化)

What's the meaning of Paypal? "PayPal is the faster, safer way to send money, make an online payment, receive money or set up a merchant account." You're not simplifying my online payment. You are complicating my online payment! Your slogan isn't ridiculous?

Paypal: 你再試試. 現在應該可以了

ME: 卡綁不回去了.

Paypal: 哦, 這是我們爲了保護您的安全, 您要不換張卡, 要不等等再試.
Our security program considers a variety of factors at each transaction to keep you safe.

(等等后, 綁回了卡, 接了一個新客服)

ME: 還是不行.

(又等了很久)

Paypal: 您再試試.

ME: 我試了好多遍了, 都不行.
(然後我又去試了一遍, 發現綁定成功了)

[yongfrank]

現在能看到 PayPal 的聊天記錄了, 補充幾條原文&譯文 (回復好像不能使用 markdown)

Round one

PayPal
我檢查了你的賬戶有一筆 25USD 的賬單被多次取消.
I reviewed your account and see that you have tried to make the payment $25.00 USD and it has been declined multiple times.

我我們的系統取消了這個賬單. 這通常是因為保護您的賬戶安全. 讓我看看能否處理這個問題.
Our systems have declined the payment. It rarely does it, It normally may happened if it notices an unusual pattern / multi attempts / you are trying to make this transition from a untrusted network and a few which we are not allowed to discuss. The intention is only for the safety of the customer account. However, let me check if I can override this please.

我已經處理好了. 您再嘗試一下. 但可能也有其他原因導致被拒.
Great! I have attempted to resolve this issue for you. Can you try this transaction again while I have you on the chat so I can make sure everything works for you? Although we may be able to reassess a transaction declined by our internal security system, the transaction may still be declined for other reasons.

please let me know once you are done making this payment.

If you wish to set up the recurring payment, I request you to contact the merchant only merchant has the option to set up recurring payment.

In this case, I request you to try making the payment by using the different payment method.
Is there anything else I can assist you with today?

I realize this is frustrating, our internal security system checks every transaction to make sure they are risk free.
Currently the payment is not going through, I request you to try out side PayPal.

In this case, I request you to contact the merchant and ask to set up the recurring payment for you.
Once the recurring payment is set up the payment will be automatically completed as per the date.

Round two
I checked and see that you have attempted to make the payment $25.00 USD multiple times to " Apple iTunes, however the payment is declined.
Okay, I have attempted to resolve this issue for you. Can you try this transaction again while I have you on the chat so I can make sure everything works for you?

請嘗試到 apple iTunes 結賬
Please try making the payment to Apple iTunes now.
However, if you need to set up billing agreement please contact the merchant ask to contact us to check and assist further.
I hope you understand and please let us know if you have any more questions apart from this to assist you further.

[shutongxinq]

用美国的卡可以正常支付

[trepwq]

新注册的 paypal 绑定 app store 肯定会被风控，建议过段时间（几个月）再试试。而且苹果本来就禁止跨区使用 id，这种情况触发风控说明苹果的风控水平还是可以的。

[tiiis]

我之前也是可以绑定不能支付，换信用卡就可以了，多绑定几个卡吧

[yongfrank]

@trepwq 注冊有半年多了, 只不過一直沒有綁卡消費.

@shutongxinq 美國卡要肉身去一趟美國, 暫時還沒有計劃. 虛擬卡除非有什麽更好的選擇, 否則一般不在考慮範圍.

@tiiis 成功支付的信用卡是哪家的什麽卡?

[tiiis]

@yongfrank 失败和成功的都是浦发信用卡，MasterCard 失败了，visa 和 AE 成功了

[xiaocongcong]

用 paypal 就要自行承担风险，ebay 被卖家欺诈，paypal 支付的，其实 paypal，ebay 就是一个公司。客服明示暗示这种情况他们碰到多了，但是你是中国人，我们条款不适用大陆地区，你自己认栽吧

[icarian]

因为十年前注册的 Paypal 帐号变成了国区，去年重新注册了一个美区的帐号，就上周不小心用 iOS App 登录了一次，然后被风控了.... 什么都没绑定过，支付方式也没设置过，可能因为登录 IP 有变化吧。不折腾了

[yongfrank]

@xiaocongcong @trepwq 所以風控是蘋果做還是 PayPal 做。PayPal 可能性大。但是 Google play store 可以正常付款，這就很迷了。

[xiaocongcong]

@yongfrank 正常是 paypal，我刚海淘的时候注册 paypal 成功付款，然后账号就被冻结，需要给客服写邮件上传信用卡和水电费的缴费单或者居住证之类的才能解开。大陆这边黑卡太多了，这种情况几乎是他们的常规操作

[yongfrank]

@icarian PayPal 比直接輸卡號，cvv 安全一點，你的風控是無法綁卡還是什麼，綁了卡不是 Autopay 的還是可以正常付的。而且一般識別卡歸屬地的支付系統也可以通過 PayPal 繞過。也不可能帶著支付寶走天下吧😄。

[taresky]

从 12 年开始，PP 的风控规则我控制变量测试过十几张信用卡，基础的规则也没测出来。

这就是为什么我不推荐在美区 ID 绑定 PayPal… 太危险了

[trepwq]

@yongfrank 我认为是苹果，曾经十年的 paypal 也被苹果拒绝，其他付款没有过失败，不过半年后又可以了

[tiiis]

@taresky #12 为啥美区 ID 绑 PP 危险

[yongfrank]

@xiaocongcong 海淘被封是不是帳單地址收貨地址不一造成的。

[icarian]

@yongfrank 我事后反思了下，是通过 Paypal iOS App 登录美区账户后出的问题，之前通过 Web 都没问题，App 登录可能被抓到 IP 地址不一样了。感觉近期的 Paypal 风控频次有点过高，海外支付服务，我就几个基本的服务，Apple、Netfilix、Google account，对于我来说，除了信用卡确实没啥好的方案了。

[yongfrank]

本記僅供大家參考, 綁定過程與結果以實際為準. 只是為了讓大家少走彎路.

結果: 經過 72 小時(也可能是本身因爲星巴克的賬單的風險期過了), 長時間與客服唇槍舌劍, 最終成功綁定. (期間換過美國的 ip, 不知最終成功是不是 IP 的原因)

## 總結
由於 gift card 裏還有餘額, 無法測試 Store 與 IAP(In-App Purchases)的可用性. Store 付款應該是沒有問題的, IAP 付款如果不可用我可以通過上次聯係 apple 的 case 號重新接入客服, 解決效率應該會提高.

按照 PayPal 與 apple 的説法, 風控由 PayPal 做的可能性比較大. apple 做風控也應該只可能在 iap 中動手脚, 或者不讓你支付. 在[maying]( https://docs.maying.co/tutorial/paypal)的教程中也是綁定找 PayPal, iap 找 apple.

所以, 綁定不成功死盯著 PayPal 客服就行了.

[AkiseAru]

我感觉也是被 paypal 风控了，捐款之类的能扣，绑定 itunes 就一直授权失败。

[MuZhilin]

我 paypal 倒是绑定上了，但就是一直不能支付。